The demographic groups involved likely have an average intellectual quotient (IQ) under 85, an aspect that's seldom discussed openly in France. What is the cost of silence?
As a French person who has studied and worked in France, I have very mixed feelings about this narrative. Explaining social inequalities as a result of genetic differences is a reductionist perspective that completely misses the historical context, and if it were true, it would not explain why Moroccans are outrageously successful in French engineering schools, especially the most elitist ones like Polytechnique and Centrale, which are extremely competitive with admission tests that are more challenging than most Ivy Leagues. I've been in the tech industry for over 10 years now, and in most of the companies I've worked for, about 30% of the engineering workforce was from North Africa, more commonly the equivalent of the Indian H-1B worker in US. Of course, these workers are mostly from wealthy families and have a natural advantage in that they speak French. Nonetheless, there is no chance that they could be so dominant in the tech industry, and the French elitist education system, if their average IQ were around 85.
Thanks for your comments. Had replied to you, but reply seems to ave got lost. It is certainly possible to question a group average if some members of that group are over-represented in elite and cognitively demanding occupations. Do you have access to examination results, or membership of French technology occupations? To question the average result we need good results (high coverage) for the high achievers so as to be able to get solid estimates. For example, one could estimate the intelligence of Soviet Jews by looking for Jewish surnames on the lists of Soviet chess champions. About 10 years worth of data required to get a rough estimate of the average ability of Soviet Jews from which the prizewinners were drawn.
In the article economic data shows Moroccans have a negative economic impact, to the French economy, so if that data is correct, you are highlighting a minority that does not contribute enough to the economy to counter this effect. There are several factors that likely create such a minority 1. Cultural familiarity due to colonization 2. In group preference by Moroccans and 3. out group preference among the natives. In the US it is common to see a few Indians get hired in an IT department and before long only Indians get hired. They have preference for their own and the business is incentivized to hire them as they count as diverse which helps in acquisition of government contracts. 4. Average IQ does not reflect on every individual. Intelligence is on a distribution curve and you will find very intelligent Nigerians and very stupid Swedes, but if you imported either population en masse these individuals would prove bad indicators of the average person in their country. Finally, I think you’re right to point to multiple variables at play. In the US and in France you have low IQ populations with high racial grievance against the country and high in group preference that generally cause the violence.
yeah, but i've heard the same thing, bubble or not if 30% of a group work in tech looking at an average IQ of 85 seems to make bad predictions. is IQ not predictive, or are we missing multi-modality? so he isn't the only one living in a bubble when it comes to IQ stuff it seems :)
We need better data on elite achievements to see if the group average is wrong. One problem is that some countries have always had cognitive elites, who are very choosy in marriage, and predominate in cultural and economic occupations. Some Nigerian groups, for example such as the Igbos. Perhaps the Al-Rashidis in Kuwait (who told me that "We are the Jews of the Arabs"). Perhaps also the Tutsi versus the Hutu.
As to bubbles, our experiences are partly determined by our preferences. For example, if the young Razib had stayed in England, he might have felt that only in eccentric England would he have been able to develop his interests. He would then be accused of living in an English bubble.
Multi-factorial? The French and British riot data share low intelligence as a factor. Make a list of your presumed factors, and then see if you can disentangle those from a simpler cognitive explanation.
Adolescent enthusiasm combined with athletic ability
Simple greed for unearned luxury items
Susceptibility to propaganda and incitement
Peer-group mob "instinct"
Resentment over previous police activity
I am not an expert in this field as "Rational [!] Wiki" so "describes" you, but long ago when I submitted social-psychological explanations, criminality records and political organisation data to the Scarman Report, my comments were returned unread; the fallacious US Kerner report was used as his Lordship's PC guide.
Worth noting from the Left - Andrew Hussey's "The French Intifada".
"I worked with some smart Algerians in tech, so their average IQs can't be 85" is a really low quality trolling that somehow is generating engagement.
A better question to ask is the following: given the geographic proximity of Algeria (and North Africa in general) to Europe and the high European genetic admixture in Algerians, why hasn't Algerians build a prosperous, peaceful, and modern society? Can we quantify the level of European genetic admixture in Algerians and predict their IQ? If you've seen Algerians in person, you'll notice that a lot of them look just like typical Europeans in the Mediterranean regions. Does this guy look particularly North African to you?
North Africans and Europeans have very close genetic distance. Certainly closer than European and East Asians for example. And the North Africans haven't achieved much in the past 500 years.
This is a good article. Most of the commentary has understandably focussed on the rioter IQ aspect. So I will pick up on another aspect - one that you do touch on but one that is almost invariably screened out in discourse on the causes of rioting. Rioting is only ever about one thing - the psychological and/or material gains to be had from rioting - or perceived to be had. These may be cathartic or they may be venal and opportunistic or all three. People (in the West anyway) do not riot because of any kind of 'social injustice'. Decent people faced with 'social injustice' may feel angry and they may well be suffering..... but they don't riot. Only rioting-types riot. The amount of false hand-wringing, hot-air in the MSM about the 'causes of riots' would be enough to power a rocket to the moon. https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/
As a French person who has studied and worked in France, I have very mixed feelings about this narrative. Explaining social inequalities as a result of genetic differences is a reductionist perspective that completely misses the historical context, and if it were true, it would not explain why Moroccans are outrageously successful in French engineering schools, especially the most elitist ones like Polytechnique and Centrale, which are extremely competitive with admission tests that are more challenging than most Ivy Leagues. I've been in the tech industry for over 10 years now, and in most of the companies I've worked for, about 30% of the engineering workforce was from North Africa, more commonly the equivalent of the Indian H-1B worker in US. Of course, these workers are mostly from wealthy families and have a natural advantage in that they speak French. Nonetheless, there is no chance that they could be so dominant in the tech industry, and the French elitist education system, if their average IQ were around 85.
Thanks for your comments. Had replied to you, but reply seems to ave got lost. It is certainly possible to question a group average if some members of that group are over-represented in elite and cognitively demanding occupations. Do you have access to examination results, or membership of French technology occupations? To question the average result we need good results (high coverage) for the high achievers so as to be able to get solid estimates. For example, one could estimate the intelligence of Soviet Jews by looking for Jewish surnames on the lists of Soviet chess champions. About 10 years worth of data required to get a rough estimate of the average ability of Soviet Jews from which the prizewinners were drawn.
In the article economic data shows Moroccans have a negative economic impact, to the French economy, so if that data is correct, you are highlighting a minority that does not contribute enough to the economy to counter this effect. There are several factors that likely create such a minority 1. Cultural familiarity due to colonization 2. In group preference by Moroccans and 3. out group preference among the natives. In the US it is common to see a few Indians get hired in an IT department and before long only Indians get hired. They have preference for their own and the business is incentivized to hire them as they count as diverse which helps in acquisition of government contracts. 4. Average IQ does not reflect on every individual. Intelligence is on a distribution curve and you will find very intelligent Nigerians and very stupid Swedes, but if you imported either population en masse these individuals would prove bad indicators of the average person in their country. Finally, I think you’re right to point to multiple variables at play. In the US and in France you have low IQ populations with high racial grievance against the country and high in group preference that generally cause the violence.
what % of Moroccans living in france work in tech or engineering? 1% ?
Seems like you live in a bubble
The lives of the other 99% might shock you
yeah, but i've heard the same thing, bubble or not if 30% of a group work in tech looking at an average IQ of 85 seems to make bad predictions. is IQ not predictive, or are we missing multi-modality? so he isn't the only one living in a bubble when it comes to IQ stuff it seems :)
We need better data on elite achievements to see if the group average is wrong. One problem is that some countries have always had cognitive elites, who are very choosy in marriage, and predominate in cultural and economic occupations. Some Nigerian groups, for example such as the Igbos. Perhaps the Al-Rashidis in Kuwait (who told me that "We are the Jews of the Arabs"). Perhaps also the Tutsi versus the Hutu.
As to bubbles, our experiences are partly determined by our preferences. For example, if the young Razib had stayed in England, he might have felt that only in eccentric England would he have been able to develop his interests. He would then be accused of living in an English bubble.
The cause of French riots and their nature is multi-factorial.
Compare the "black uprisings" with arson and looting against the police in Britain.
Low comparative IQ is not the only psychological factor.
David Ashton
Multi-factorial? The French and British riot data share low intelligence as a factor. Make a list of your presumed factors, and then see if you can disentangle those from a simpler cognitive explanation.
Lack of insight into future activity
Racial self-awareness
A "violence" gene
Adolescent enthusiasm combined with athletic ability
Simple greed for unearned luxury items
Susceptibility to propaganda and incitement
Peer-group mob "instinct"
Resentment over previous police activity
I am not an expert in this field as "Rational [!] Wiki" so "describes" you, but long ago when I submitted social-psychological explanations, criminality records and political organisation data to the Scarman Report, my comments were returned unread; the fallacious US Kerner report was used as his Lordship's PC guide.
Worth noting from the Left - Andrew Hussey's "The French Intifada".
Algeria for the Algerians, all of them!
"I worked with some smart Algerians in tech, so their average IQs can't be 85" is a really low quality trolling that somehow is generating engagement.
A better question to ask is the following: given the geographic proximity of Algeria (and North Africa in general) to Europe and the high European genetic admixture in Algerians, why hasn't Algerians build a prosperous, peaceful, and modern society? Can we quantify the level of European genetic admixture in Algerians and predict their IQ? If you've seen Algerians in person, you'll notice that a lot of them look just like typical Europeans in the Mediterranean regions. Does this guy look particularly North African to you?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinedine_Zidane#/media/File:Zinedine_Zidane_by_Tasnim_03.jpg
North Africans and Europeans have very close genetic distance. Certainly closer than European and East Asians for example. And the North Africans haven't achieved much in the past 500 years.
You retreated in the final hour. I was hoping you'd answer what was in your subtitle: "What is the cost of silence?"
If there's no novel policy solutions based on IQ reductionism that is substantially different from Carl Benjamin's sensible centrism (https://twitter.com/Sargon_of_Akkad/status/1596228653125435392?s=20) then the cost of silence doesn't seem meaningful.
This is a good article. Most of the commentary has understandably focussed on the rioter IQ aspect. So I will pick up on another aspect - one that you do touch on but one that is almost invariably screened out in discourse on the causes of rioting. Rioting is only ever about one thing - the psychological and/or material gains to be had from rioting - or perceived to be had. These may be cathartic or they may be venal and opportunistic or all three. People (in the West anyway) do not riot because of any kind of 'social injustice'. Decent people faced with 'social injustice' may feel angry and they may well be suffering..... but they don't riot. Only rioting-types riot. The amount of false hand-wringing, hot-air in the MSM about the 'causes of riots' would be enough to power a rocket to the moon. https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/