Interesting theory! I would be interested in seeing it tested by looking at changes in political ideology after injuries and diseases that reduce evolutionary fitness.
Are you suggesting a relationship between the progressive-liberal-marxist urbanite experiencing a face-to-face beating robbery with extensive rehab and a subsequent conversion to a conservative pro-gun anti-crime rural survivalist?
I have seen research that shows those who suffered illness and trauma as babies and toddlers are more likely to vote Left. I believe Edward Dutton has discussed this.
This is excellent. I’ve been looking for an alternative to Moral Foundations Theory. Thus far everything else I had come across had severe limitations.
Could efficient hunters have greater spatial orientation?
Could efficient gatherers possess greater ability for long-term planning?
.
Did -- and do -- those folk, recognizing the potential for protecting their off-spring and community, naturally gravitate toward forming productive relationships... based on mutual benefits?
I would say that people who would be good HGs become conservative, and people who would be poor HGs become liberal. I don't think the cause/effect is reversed, since things that make us good HGs are mostly genetic (immune health, size, spatial intelligence).
Absolutely fascinating stuff this. But it would be good to overlay this HG/fitness/weakness theorem with another cross current: a civilisational-historical perspective. How, in other words, civilisations (including our Western Liberalism one) rise/thrive/decay and fall (as they all do eventually) and how the HG/fitness theorem might help to explain this trajectory.
I think your position is based on spiral assumptions.
Let's examine today's article from outside the programming:
* I think our species thrived best prior to about ten thousand years ago.
* I think our obviously and tragically failed experiments with agriculture -- and its evil sibling 'civilization' -- conclusively prove we are better as pastoral nomads.
.
Indeed, for several hundred thousand years, our Neanderthal ancestors crafted successful trading networks from the Iberian Peninsula through Siberia and into the Fertile Crescent.
Fortunately, their DNA continues as part of all Northern European Heritage folk.
.
However it may seem I am discounting the many many tremendous accomplishments of our Afrikan distant relatives, I believe those were the result of a significantly-higher birth-rate mixed with easy access to year-round high-carbohydrate calories.
Do you think their many dozens of centuries of evidence indicate a high-carbohydrate low-nutrient low-effort diet correlates to a reduced need for genetic diversity through multi-seasonal planning and mated couple cohesion... with the conscious thought of benefiting the community beyond mere short-term gratification?
Thank you. I'm not really sure how I could use this model to explain the life cycle of a civilisation, since different empires have different life spans and occur across different timelines, and the HGFM involves relative levels of fitness, not absolute measures. However, I do believe this model is applicable not only at the individual level, but at the group/racial level as well.
“.... Western Liberalism may have always contained the seeds of its 21st century ruination. The following is my stab at identifying the nature of this trajedic Fatal Flaw; extrapolating from the particular case of Britain. One thing not well understood about Britain’s heyday as the great 19th century bastion of capitalist enterprise is that, right from the start, the rapid expansion of its middle class gave rise to a contrary force. The hard driven, muck-and-brass first generation often spawned a second generation class disdainful of ‘trade’ and wanting to feel more sophisticated than thou – the seed bed of a nascent Progressive intelligentsia. Instead of rooting one’s self-worth in one’s ability to produce things, the highly schooled and ‘educated’ - particularly in the arts and burgeoning public sector - began to derive their sense of self from a spurious conceit of themselves as champions of Social Justice.”
Ahh, I see what you are getting at, I think. In this case you mention, Britain shifted from a more production oriented mindset to a more consumeristic mindset. And that this might be due to a change in HG fitness levels or life strategy, you mean?
I will think about it, it could also just be due to the wealth of the nation and the new generations not understanding where it came from, and falling into decadence, as described in Glubbs The Fate of Empires. Interesting suggestion, thanks!
What I meant in - crude terms, picking up on some observations (which I can't now quite place) in your own thesis - is that the less-fit will always collectively resent the most-fit
Yes I think for sure they do and always will, while conservatives don't hold so much hate. The most-fit were a physical threat in HG times, but were never under threat from the weak.
So, this article contends that the (mostly) white Americans have "higher levels of health, beauty, fertility, strength, size, testosterone, and spatial intelligence" - while all those non-white liberals/democrats "excel in social skills and verbal intelligence"?
Really? It would appear that "HG" traits are quite high in the white population of the US.
‘Furthermore, conservatives have a greater disgust response than liberals (Elad-Strenger et al, 2020), which can be attributed to their greater health.’
Why? Isn't it the opposite: greater health can be attributed to their greater disgust response? As this study seems to imply (I did not look extensively at the literature): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17481576/
Interesting theory! I would be interested in seeing it tested by looking at changes in political ideology after injuries and diseases that reduce evolutionary fitness.
George,
Are you suggesting a relationship between the progressive-liberal-marxist urbanite experiencing a face-to-face beating robbery with extensive rehab and a subsequent conversion to a conservative pro-gun anti-crime rural survivalist?
.
I could see that happening...
I have seen research that shows those who suffered illness and trauma as babies and toddlers are more likely to vote Left. I believe Edward Dutton has discussed this.
That might work, I would guess the effect is larger in women, as the effect of weight lifting on political preference is larger in men.
This is excellent. I’ve been looking for an alternative to Moral Foundations Theory. Thus far everything else I had come across had severe limitations.
Might cause/effect be reversed?
Could efficient hunters have greater spatial orientation?
Could efficient gatherers possess greater ability for long-term planning?
.
Did -- and do -- those folk, recognizing the potential for protecting their off-spring and community, naturally gravitate toward forming productive relationships... based on mutual benefits?
I would say that people who would be good HGs become conservative, and people who would be poor HGs become liberal. I don't think the cause/effect is reversed, since things that make us good HGs are mostly genetic (immune health, size, spatial intelligence).
Absolutely fascinating stuff this. But it would be good to overlay this HG/fitness/weakness theorem with another cross current: a civilisational-historical perspective. How, in other words, civilisations (including our Western Liberalism one) rise/thrive/decay and fall (as they all do eventually) and how the HG/fitness theorem might help to explain this trajectory.
Graham,
I think your position is based on spiral assumptions.
Let's examine today's article from outside the programming:
* I think our species thrived best prior to about ten thousand years ago.
* I think our obviously and tragically failed experiments with agriculture -- and its evil sibling 'civilization' -- conclusively prove we are better as pastoral nomads.
.
Indeed, for several hundred thousand years, our Neanderthal ancestors crafted successful trading networks from the Iberian Peninsula through Siberia and into the Fertile Crescent.
Fortunately, their DNA continues as part of all Northern European Heritage folk.
.
However it may seem I am discounting the many many tremendous accomplishments of our Afrikan distant relatives, I believe those were the result of a significantly-higher birth-rate mixed with easy access to year-round high-carbohydrate calories.
Do you think their many dozens of centuries of evidence indicate a high-carbohydrate low-nutrient low-effort diet correlates to a reduced need for genetic diversity through multi-seasonal planning and mated couple cohesion... with the conscious thought of benefiting the community beyond mere short-term gratification?
Thank you. I'm not really sure how I could use this model to explain the life cycle of a civilisation, since different empires have different life spans and occur across different timelines, and the HGFM involves relative levels of fitness, not absolute measures. However, I do believe this model is applicable not only at the individual level, but at the group/racial level as well.
You could take just one...or more realistically a particular era of one. Like our 19th/20th c. Western industrial age for example.
In a recent essay of mine https://www.takimag.com/article/the-fatal-flaw-of-western-liberalism/ (which I will post in my own Substack at some stage) I make this admittedly broad-brush stab at its evolving social psychology:
“.... Western Liberalism may have always contained the seeds of its 21st century ruination. The following is my stab at identifying the nature of this trajedic Fatal Flaw; extrapolating from the particular case of Britain. One thing not well understood about Britain’s heyday as the great 19th century bastion of capitalist enterprise is that, right from the start, the rapid expansion of its middle class gave rise to a contrary force. The hard driven, muck-and-brass first generation often spawned a second generation class disdainful of ‘trade’ and wanting to feel more sophisticated than thou – the seed bed of a nascent Progressive intelligentsia. Instead of rooting one’s self-worth in one’s ability to produce things, the highly schooled and ‘educated’ - particularly in the arts and burgeoning public sector - began to derive their sense of self from a spurious conceit of themselves as champions of Social Justice.”
Ahh, I see what you are getting at, I think. In this case you mention, Britain shifted from a more production oriented mindset to a more consumeristic mindset. And that this might be due to a change in HG fitness levels or life strategy, you mean?
I will think about it, it could also just be due to the wealth of the nation and the new generations not understanding where it came from, and falling into decadence, as described in Glubbs The Fate of Empires. Interesting suggestion, thanks!
What I meant in - crude terms, picking up on some observations (which I can't now quite place) in your own thesis - is that the less-fit will always collectively resent the most-fit
As in: https://grahamcunningham.substack.com/p/invasion-of-the-virtue-signallers
Yes I think for sure they do and always will, while conservatives don't hold so much hate. The most-fit were a physical threat in HG times, but were never under threat from the weak.
I think my model of things is better:
https://eharding.substack.com/p/the-seven-body-composition-types
Conservatives exhibit higher levels of health, -nope (at least, not in the US post-1996).
I didn't read the post but its pretty obvious that conservatives are healthier.
- vaccine hesitancy correlates with health
- physical attractiveness correlates with health
Conservatives are higher in both of these and its not debated.
Check life expectancy or obesity by county and check the correlation with the presidential vote.
Yeah that might be interesting... but I don't really know how to do that, I'm an amateur.
Hahaha! LOL. I love your model! (BTW I think I must be a combo Orc/Satanist according to your article)
And, another thing to consider - non-white Americans skew overwhelmingly liberal/Democratic in terms of political affiliation:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/160373/democrats-racially-diverse-republicans-mostly-white.aspx
So, this article contends that the (mostly) white Americans have "higher levels of health, beauty, fertility, strength, size, testosterone, and spatial intelligence" - while all those non-white liberals/democrats "excel in social skills and verbal intelligence"?
Really? It would appear that "HG" traits are quite high in the white population of the US.
LOL.
‘Furthermore, conservatives have a greater disgust response than liberals (Elad-Strenger et al, 2020), which can be attributed to their greater health.’
Why? Isn't it the opposite: greater health can be attributed to their greater disgust response? As this study seems to imply (I did not look extensively at the literature): https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17481576/
According to the model, not much, since it involves relative fitness level.
DL,
Most instances of attempted tyranny result in the Irish model of ignoring the bureaucrats.
The rest just dust off the guillotine and gallows.