“ The ancients practiced slavery, but it was not racially based; they established little connection between physical characteristics and behavior.”
What connection is there when the aspect of successful functioning slave in an ancient society is at a general low level of ability? A slave is simply an extra set of hands to do manual labor. Some exceptions of course. For example, the ancient Romans prized educated Greek slaves as child tutors and household managers and such. Not sure we find reference to say, Nubians used in these roles. Does this differentiation along the lines of “race” not seem an exception to your observation among the ancients?
However, when one gets to more modern times, say the early Americas, we see attempts to enslave the indigenous people first (based on availability), then importing European indentured servants (limited to terms of contract), and finally Blacks (unlimited importation and duration of indenture). As I’ve read, Blacks were proven most useful in that they were fairly robust to the diseases of the Americas. Indigenous people ran away. Indentured servants were as susceptible to disease as their European masters. But the people from the continent of Africa were different. And that difference is today recognized as one aspect of racial difference between the people of European descent and African descent.
The human phenotype is not the human being. The human being is an abstract entity that emerged or grew from the human animals engagement with the environment, history, and The Divine.
Each “ racial” group has developed knowledge of the environment and life that others haven’t.
Qur’an 49:13 We ( nature , history, processes, interactions etc. governed by Allah) created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know ( and learn from) ). Verily the most NOBLE of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.
“The peoples of cold countries generally, and particularly those of Europe, are full of spirit, but deficient in skill and intelligence; and this is why they continue to remain comparatively free, but attain no political development and show no capacity for governing others. The peoples of Asia are endowed with skill and intelligence, but are deficient in spirit; and this is the way they continue to be peoples of subjects and slaves. The Greek stock, intermediate in geographical position, unites the qualities of both sets of peoples. It possesses both spirit and intelligence: the one quality that makes it continue to be free.”
“ Fascinating statistics presented on the epigenetic affect on groups by the culture. Sowell provides a data example that for the blacks whom decided to remain in Germany their children performed "to a normal standard" in German schooling,”
Did Sowell state whom the Black GI’s married and had children with? The typical American Black has a 25% admixture of White genes. Mate with a German bride and you have an admixture greater than 50% White genes. Being raised in a Germanic culture and rigorous school systems...and well, you have quite a positive result result. But is this environmental in the main, or genetic?
Sowell is simply wrong, or most likely has cherry picked a “study” to confirm his biases—which are toward a primary explanation of IQ diff’s on environment (culture is environment). Not that there is no environmental aspect to behavior, and IQ. Not denying such. Nor epigenetic influence of a sort. However, Richard Lynn and any number of researchers have studied IQ differences among the races and there is no “Black” country where the average Black IQ compares to Western countries such as Germany. If the Black deficiencies in IQ and behavior were to be explained by environment, then one might expect some outliers somewhere in the world. There are variations, yes, among the various ethnicities in Africa—even some like the Igbo of Nigeria who are touted as having Western-like IQ’s, but that is still debated.
Also, Sowell overlooks studies of adopted children from Black mothers into White households. Invariably the IQ and behavioral characteristics most closely resemble the birth mother’s background, rather than the adopting White family. Not that there is no improvement, but the end result is still not nearly that which would be expected of a biological child. This finding follows studies of White adoptees as well.
The typical understanding of studies converge on a ~80% genetic relationship and perhaps ~20% environmental.
Well the latter quote's author, in regards to the immutable traits alikened to head length tinkering, seemingly was proven correct in regards to statistics we hold about migration now. For example, people moving from one country to the next, their traits picked up in the original country (such as Asian workaholic diligence) is lessened over generations. By the third generation, I hear, it is lost.
In finding a study, "Regardless of its origin, the effect of culture wanes as youth assimilate to American norms over generations such that by the third generation, Asian Americans no longer differ from whites in terms of their educational profiles..." https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1406402111
But from what Lynn argued, that this can be also the opposite in the case of IQ where if a migrant of a lower IQ moves to a new country, their descendants IQ rises to stabilise with the average - argue of whether the schooling system has an affect (as an example of the Greek climate) because of the massive jumps in IQ that seem to be beyond biological means and therefore environmentally caused.
Totally contrasted by the Gustev Le Bon-ish view of the education system (that it's trash, written in The Crowd), but if Lynn is correct, it's possible that it does have a correlate with IQ - the education system I mentally trashed my whole life out of how bored I always was... Bon believes we went with the French system which minimised practical applications of knowledge. That leaving a degree, students learnt no application of their skill and so it was a pointless enterprise - in separation to the prior systems and other systems of the age which all focused on practical application of the skills you wanted to become better in - ie, traineeship / apprenticeship in your area. Training as a teacher through practice, by teaching, is probably far better than reading about teaching, would be a paraphrased example.
So if culture does "imbue" us with something, that we can take with us, as the Greeks suggested. It would be hypothetically interesting to see how one could cause a continuation of that over more than a few generations. Ie, I think the Jews try this. There was some statistics around recently, that... the postcode you are born in, your neighbourhood, have a more direct affect on your child's outcomes than your parenting ability (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVEGaKDb7Ow) ie your direct immersive cultural environment - so again, all the data I have seems to support the hypothesis presented here.
I enjoyed listening to this, thanks. I'd be interested to hear what Spain specifically viewed race like historically, because it had a vast amount of relations with Africa over time due to proximity if I recall.
Always the conversation of "slavery is not attributed to race" is a good conversation for modern education, and that, "ancient people were not dumb" is also relevant to taming modern narcissism. So good article, thanks :).
Not sure what you mean by “lost” by the third generation. Ignoring the interbreeding of races which might produce a “cline” of sorts and promote a lessening of racial aspects of behavior and physiology, we don’t see that in the American Black—who can trace their lineage here a half dozen—or more—generations. Descriptions of Black behavioral tendencies from the earliest American writings are quite similar to today’s studies/findings by sociologists. Of course, there are exceptions.
But even discarding all such observations as racial bigotry, one can not deny that the Black representation/dominance in American sports, such as Football and Basketball. If there is some across the board lessening of behavior and/or physical differences due to environment/culture it seems not to be all encompassing.
I could make similar behavioral comparisons wrt American Asians as well. “Tiger moms” come to mind as well as their children’s “over-representation” in American institutions of higher education. In see no generational decline—at least in that characteristic.
Sowell blames the culture specifically - ie, it is worsened (not just by intergenerational poverty) but because the cultural affect is taught within America rather than in the foreign countries. There was a discussion in the book about the comparisons between black American WW2 soldier's deciding to stay and raise their children in Germany verses returning to raise them in America. Discussing disparities in the data between American-heritage blacks raised in Germany verses raised in "black subculture" in America. Fascinating statistics presented on the epigenetic affect on groups by the culture.
Sowell provides a data example that for the blacks whom decided to remain in Germany their children performed "to a normal standard" in German schooling, whilst the children of men whom returned to America floundered. Sowell arguing that what is causing the disparity in results is by the black subculture itself. For example, an example I would provide would be in rap music (besides those thwarting it like lupe fiasco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3m3t_PxiUI in him talking about verbal disparities in rap affecting the populace's subconscious for black culture) - I think its commonly discussed by Zuby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsP_B-iL6DM) and Coleman as well (https://www.youtube.com/@ColemanHughesOfficial).
So your argument, whilst true, I think is because its continued by the subculture in the new country. Whereas most third generation migrants are raised in mixed neighbourhoods - so more widely affected by the general country norms.
"... see no generational decline—at least in that characteristic," studies do show there is a decline, as the second generation are less "tiger" and so on from what I hear... I had some chinese kids living across the road from me, whom used to come play at our house rather than studying sometimes, as an example of being affected by the culture (by me, lol).
I find the sport thing interesting yea. I was just watching an Australian pundit talking about NRL (rugby) and how his intention was to get local indian and chinese involved as top level players in the game - him being the head of the regulatory body for the game (https://youtu.be/IEXfVBCrUdU?si=O-GALhPr5mLE9Nzp&t=656, his joke is 'state' dependant based on rugby rules as there is two prominent versons in australia NFL/AFL which is why the crowd laughed as must be in NSW rather than VIC).
His idea is possible, but also quite difficult due to evolutionary affects, as you are trying to explain - that there is an evolutionary affect in body proportions dependant on a races' environmental background. I've personally met some pretty buff asians, but its less common.
It is possible with sport, as the guy is saying in the video, is that sport is used like the military in that it is a "breaking through class barriers" kind of institution. That it aids in social mobility. So that's why certain ethnicities may also be over represented, both because of physicality, but also because people in the lower class focus on it more - as it seems more obtainable than other higher class career choices - I am not sure of the statistics in lower vs upper class representation in the top of sport in the United States (interesting research subject though).
"For centuries, most people adhered to heliocentrism." You mean geocentrism?
Kind of surprised this hasn't been edited and author's-noted yet.
"It is therefore understandable that most progressives are eager to dismiss the concept of race altogether."
Until it involves the white race.
“ The ancients practiced slavery, but it was not racially based; they established little connection between physical characteristics and behavior.”
What connection is there when the aspect of successful functioning slave in an ancient society is at a general low level of ability? A slave is simply an extra set of hands to do manual labor. Some exceptions of course. For example, the ancient Romans prized educated Greek slaves as child tutors and household managers and such. Not sure we find reference to say, Nubians used in these roles. Does this differentiation along the lines of “race” not seem an exception to your observation among the ancients?
However, when one gets to more modern times, say the early Americas, we see attempts to enslave the indigenous people first (based on availability), then importing European indentured servants (limited to terms of contract), and finally Blacks (unlimited importation and duration of indenture). As I’ve read, Blacks were proven most useful in that they were fairly robust to the diseases of the Americas. Indigenous people ran away. Indentured servants were as susceptible to disease as their European masters. But the people from the continent of Africa were different. And that difference is today recognized as one aspect of racial difference between the people of European descent and African descent.
The human phenotype is not the human being. The human being is an abstract entity that emerged or grew from the human animals engagement with the environment, history, and The Divine.
Each “ racial” group has developed knowledge of the environment and life that others haven’t.
Qur’an 49:13 We ( nature , history, processes, interactions etc. governed by Allah) created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know ( and learn from) ). Verily the most NOBLE of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you.
“The peoples of cold countries generally, and particularly those of Europe, are full of spirit, but deficient in skill and intelligence; and this is why they continue to remain comparatively free, but attain no political development and show no capacity for governing others. The peoples of Asia are endowed with skill and intelligence, but are deficient in spirit; and this is the way they continue to be peoples of subjects and slaves. The Greek stock, intermediate in geographical position, unites the qualities of both sets of peoples. It possesses both spirit and intelligence: the one quality that makes it continue to be free.”
Aristotle said nothing factually incorrect.
“ Fascinating statistics presented on the epigenetic affect on groups by the culture. Sowell provides a data example that for the blacks whom decided to remain in Germany their children performed "to a normal standard" in German schooling,”
Did Sowell state whom the Black GI’s married and had children with? The typical American Black has a 25% admixture of White genes. Mate with a German bride and you have an admixture greater than 50% White genes. Being raised in a Germanic culture and rigorous school systems...and well, you have quite a positive result result. But is this environmental in the main, or genetic?
Sowell is simply wrong, or most likely has cherry picked a “study” to confirm his biases—which are toward a primary explanation of IQ diff’s on environment (culture is environment). Not that there is no environmental aspect to behavior, and IQ. Not denying such. Nor epigenetic influence of a sort. However, Richard Lynn and any number of researchers have studied IQ differences among the races and there is no “Black” country where the average Black IQ compares to Western countries such as Germany. If the Black deficiencies in IQ and behavior were to be explained by environment, then one might expect some outliers somewhere in the world. There are variations, yes, among the various ethnicities in Africa—even some like the Igbo of Nigeria who are touted as having Western-like IQ’s, but that is still debated.
Also, Sowell overlooks studies of adopted children from Black mothers into White households. Invariably the IQ and behavioral characteristics most closely resemble the birth mother’s background, rather than the adopting White family. Not that there is no improvement, but the end result is still not nearly that which would be expected of a biological child. This finding follows studies of White adoptees as well.
The typical understanding of studies converge on a ~80% genetic relationship and perhaps ~20% environmental.
Well the latter quote's author, in regards to the immutable traits alikened to head length tinkering, seemingly was proven correct in regards to statistics we hold about migration now. For example, people moving from one country to the next, their traits picked up in the original country (such as Asian workaholic diligence) is lessened over generations. By the third generation, I hear, it is lost.
In finding a study, "Regardless of its origin, the effect of culture wanes as youth assimilate to American norms over generations such that by the third generation, Asian Americans no longer differ from whites in terms of their educational profiles..." https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1406402111
But from what Lynn argued, that this can be also the opposite in the case of IQ where if a migrant of a lower IQ moves to a new country, their descendants IQ rises to stabilise with the average - argue of whether the schooling system has an affect (as an example of the Greek climate) because of the massive jumps in IQ that seem to be beyond biological means and therefore environmentally caused.
Totally contrasted by the Gustev Le Bon-ish view of the education system (that it's trash, written in The Crowd), but if Lynn is correct, it's possible that it does have a correlate with IQ - the education system I mentally trashed my whole life out of how bored I always was... Bon believes we went with the French system which minimised practical applications of knowledge. That leaving a degree, students learnt no application of their skill and so it was a pointless enterprise - in separation to the prior systems and other systems of the age which all focused on practical application of the skills you wanted to become better in - ie, traineeship / apprenticeship in your area. Training as a teacher through practice, by teaching, is probably far better than reading about teaching, would be a paraphrased example.
So if culture does "imbue" us with something, that we can take with us, as the Greeks suggested. It would be hypothetically interesting to see how one could cause a continuation of that over more than a few generations. Ie, I think the Jews try this. There was some statistics around recently, that... the postcode you are born in, your neighbourhood, have a more direct affect on your child's outcomes than your parenting ability (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVEGaKDb7Ow) ie your direct immersive cultural environment - so again, all the data I have seems to support the hypothesis presented here.
I enjoyed listening to this, thanks. I'd be interested to hear what Spain specifically viewed race like historically, because it had a vast amount of relations with Africa over time due to proximity if I recall.
Always the conversation of "slavery is not attributed to race" is a good conversation for modern education, and that, "ancient people were not dumb" is also relevant to taming modern narcissism. So good article, thanks :).
Not sure what you mean by “lost” by the third generation. Ignoring the interbreeding of races which might produce a “cline” of sorts and promote a lessening of racial aspects of behavior and physiology, we don’t see that in the American Black—who can trace their lineage here a half dozen—or more—generations. Descriptions of Black behavioral tendencies from the earliest American writings are quite similar to today’s studies/findings by sociologists. Of course, there are exceptions.
But even discarding all such observations as racial bigotry, one can not deny that the Black representation/dominance in American sports, such as Football and Basketball. If there is some across the board lessening of behavior and/or physical differences due to environment/culture it seems not to be all encompassing.
I could make similar behavioral comparisons wrt American Asians as well. “Tiger moms” come to mind as well as their children’s “over-representation” in American institutions of higher education. In see no generational decline—at least in that characteristic.
"...promote a lessening of racial aspects of behavior" yes I've heard this by Thomas Sowell in Intellectuals and Race https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16280863-intellectuals-and-race.
Sowell blames the culture specifically - ie, it is worsened (not just by intergenerational poverty) but because the cultural affect is taught within America rather than in the foreign countries. There was a discussion in the book about the comparisons between black American WW2 soldier's deciding to stay and raise their children in Germany verses returning to raise them in America. Discussing disparities in the data between American-heritage blacks raised in Germany verses raised in "black subculture" in America. Fascinating statistics presented on the epigenetic affect on groups by the culture.
Sowell provides a data example that for the blacks whom decided to remain in Germany their children performed "to a normal standard" in German schooling, whilst the children of men whom returned to America floundered. Sowell arguing that what is causing the disparity in results is by the black subculture itself. For example, an example I would provide would be in rap music (besides those thwarting it like lupe fiasco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3m3t_PxiUI in him talking about verbal disparities in rap affecting the populace's subconscious for black culture) - I think its commonly discussed by Zuby (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsP_B-iL6DM) and Coleman as well (https://www.youtube.com/@ColemanHughesOfficial).
So your argument, whilst true, I think is because its continued by the subculture in the new country. Whereas most third generation migrants are raised in mixed neighbourhoods - so more widely affected by the general country norms.
"... see no generational decline—at least in that characteristic," studies do show there is a decline, as the second generation are less "tiger" and so on from what I hear... I had some chinese kids living across the road from me, whom used to come play at our house rather than studying sometimes, as an example of being affected by the culture (by me, lol).
"... physical differences due to environment/culture," obesity in the western countries affects all the population - and epigenetic affect is hereditary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Udlz7CMLuLQ ... So i'd say there is an environmental affect - at least in the case of food, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352154622000018.
I find the sport thing interesting yea. I was just watching an Australian pundit talking about NRL (rugby) and how his intention was to get local indian and chinese involved as top level players in the game - him being the head of the regulatory body for the game (https://youtu.be/IEXfVBCrUdU?si=O-GALhPr5mLE9Nzp&t=656, his joke is 'state' dependant based on rugby rules as there is two prominent versons in australia NFL/AFL which is why the crowd laughed as must be in NSW rather than VIC).
His idea is possible, but also quite difficult due to evolutionary affects, as you are trying to explain - that there is an evolutionary affect in body proportions dependant on a races' environmental background. I've personally met some pretty buff asians, but its less common.
I think this is due to evolutionary diet mostly I'd imagine (https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-does-health-affect-height). I was actually surprised when I realised all Africans on average aren't tall - which seems opposite to what we see in sports like basketball.
South Korea is currently growing the fastest out of any culture (https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#which-countries-have-seen-the-greatest-absolute-gains-in-height). I actually only know of this data because I am very short - 5'1, and in Australia this is highly uncommon (both my brother and mother are tall, skipped a generation, grandmothers genetics) and wanted to know the average heights in Australia https://ourworldindata.org/human-height#how-tall-are-women-across-the-world - I was debating with a Spanish student about the height of men in Australia being super tall (he claimed yes, I was dubious) so was looking for sources.
It is possible with sport, as the guy is saying in the video, is that sport is used like the military in that it is a "breaking through class barriers" kind of institution. That it aids in social mobility. So that's why certain ethnicities may also be over represented, both because of physicality, but also because people in the lower class focus on it more - as it seems more obtainable than other higher class career choices - I am not sure of the statistics in lower vs upper class representation in the top of sport in the United States (interesting research subject though).