The study is great step forward. And I much expect that the many people who believe impossible things about human races will find five other impossible things to believe before breakfast.
One minor issue for me I expect is a bigger issue for Ali Akbari, whose name leads the list of 16 authors, whereas David Reich's name comes in dead last, following the pattern that a famous researcher's name gets tagged on at the end of a long list of coauthors even though he may know almost nothing about it, and yet David Reich has been getting effectively all the credit for this study (Steve Sailer had two Substack posts about this preprint recently).
It's common in research labs to swap around first authors on papers so that PhD students get credit they need for getting jobs. The only thing we know for sure here is that it came from Reich's lab, and since it's a famous lab for ancient genomes, it makes sense to treat it as a collective unit with David as their leader.
You could be right. Upon inspection of the PDF I see: "Correspondence to: Ali_Akbari@hms.harvard.edu, reich@genetics.med.harvard.edu." Akbari's email is given first and Reich's second. It is unusual for two emails to be given for correspondence, so the only way to make sense of it is that maybe Akbari could not answer all the questions but Reich can.
It was always highly dubious that evolution just had a pause button for humans for the last several thousand generations. The same thing happened to dogs, and they're even more diverse than we are. Sadly the propagators of this belief were so focused and persistent, and were pushing on a door that wasn't so much open as removed from its hinges altogether, that it'll be a generational project to undo their wave of bullshit.
"For example, it appears that the farmers from Anatolia (green) were markedly less prone to schizophrenia than the hunter-gatherers (orange) and the Indo-Europeans or “Aryans” (blue). "
object to you using the nazi tendency of substituting aryans for indo-europeans. aryans only refers to indo-iranians. stop being retarded, it's annoying.
What are you even talking about? Aryans refer to the tall, blonde people who spread through Europe and down into Asia. Modern Iranians are a mixed population and look nothing like them, which is pretty clear from your profile pic. Europeans, on the other hand, still resemble them for obvious genetic and visual reasons. You’re clinging to basic propaganda to support your flimsy claims and racial moaning. It’s both funny and pathetic
Aryans were the Sintashta Culture. Who broke off from the corded ware culture that Europeans descend from. CWC and SC both were 3/4 PIE and 1/4 early european farmer...
PIE people were a mixture of eastern european hunter gatherer (35% western hunter gatherer and 65% ancient north eurasian) and Caucasus hunter gatherer-like people.
We use the ethnonym Aryan because Sintashta and corded ware culture are pretty much the same population, even if Sintashta were the ones who came up with that identity.
And North Europeans are the most Aryan-like autosomally. Imagine if Irish screwed off to West Africa and left 20% Irish and 80% West African descendants. Who would be more Irish-like in terms of what emerges out of their people? The 20/80 west African population who calls themselves Irish, or the Scottish who are extremely similar to the Irish.
Iranians have very little Aryan blood in them, and that is a good thing ,other wise they would not genetically belong in that region of West Asia. Iran is where the Zagros neolithic farmer ancestry peaks, and naturally Caucasus hunter gatherer ancestry peaks in the Caucasus. Those two ancestries were fated to be near each other geographically.
Pakistanis have 25% Aryan blood in them on average, but they are hybrid as ancient ancestral Indian is an east eurasian ancestry and part of the east eurasian taxa below species.
We all settled in the region of Eurasia/Africa where we genetically belonged. NW europeans literally belong in NW europe and nowhere else. This is very obvious from PCA graphs when you properly superimpose them over geographic maps with bodies of water removed and landmasses smooshed together.
It was fate that the Indo-Europeans mixed with the early europeans farmers to create most of Europe's genetic fabric. West Asians form genetic clusters near Europeans, so it was fate that their ancestors mixed the way they did region by region.
The current invasion of western europe is not the divine will it is human will, it is motivated by economics, ideology, and vengeful politics. Someone who is 1/2 NW european and 1/2 African or South Asian does not even plot near the west asian genetic clusters. Modern Europeans are the finished product of the melting pot. The gene flow events in the ice age, neolithic, bronze age, iron age and classical times were not flukes.
Actually if the current identification of original Indo-Europeans with ancient DNA is correct then those people were tall but not really blonde and not blue eyed. It doesn't sound like you're any less obsessed with racial propaganda.
Look at the Scythekans , the ancient Greeks, the Persians, (heck, even Darius wrote on his tomb I am an aryan), and the Egyptians, they were all mostly blonde, red head and light eyes.. Down the line these aryans mixed their blood and their civilisations subsequently fell and decayed, but modern day Egyptians and Indians claiming civilisations that were never there’s is absurd. Everyone wants to appropriate Aryan culture, while making it seem like their own. Sad really. And imagine getting offended over a word. Not really grown up behaviour.
North Europeans, especially NE europeans and Northern Scandinavians resemble them the most. That is where that ancestry peaks.
Sintashta culture was the Aryans, and they were a splinter of the corded ware culture (Where we descend from) that migrated eastward.
Corded ware culture had a wide variety of phenotypes (as in facial appearances) where none was really dominant. Nordic phenotypes were dominant in Sintashta culture, so it's quite clear that the Nordic-looking people of the corded ware culture generally got together, tribed up and migrated east ward. Andronovo is another splinter of sintashta culture, and nordic appearances are most dominant in them.
It was not a fluke that the corded ware culture mixed with the early european farmers to create most of Europe's genetic fabric. Europeans form a genetic cluster, and West Asians form numerous genetic clusters around the European one. It is very similar to our geographic relationship with one another. It was also not a fluke that Finns ended up with some Siberian in them, as it gives them genetic distance to go along with their geographic distance. It's normal for Europeans on the fringes of Europe to have something other than NAF, WHG, ANE and CHG.
Europeans and West Asians are both members of the West Eurasian taxa below species. When the Reich Lab talks about West Eurasians, they are talking about a "sub-species".
West Eurasian ancient ancestries are Neolithic anatolian farmer, iranian neolithic farmer, natufian hunter gatherer, Caucasus hunter gatherer, Western Hunter Gatherer, and ancient north eurasian (not completely west eurasian).
Ashkenazi Jews are 20% Aryan and 13% ancestry that's Aryan-like, so they can be modelled as 33% Corded ware culture, which is on par with North Italians. Ashkenazi Jews have some extra iranian neolithic farmer and natufian hunter gatherer in them. They cluster near south Italians, Greeks and southwest asians. They are on the fringes of the European genetic cluster, so non-european components are to be expected.
Although they cluster near south italians, they are really more like North Italians, it's the extra INF and NHG that drags them near the south italians.
NW europeans are around 50%ish Corded ware culture and 50%ish Early European farmer. Makes sense, and some of our ideal facial appearances are a mix of Mediterranean and Nordic physical features.
to be clear for the ignorant. the word "aryans" is the endonym for indo-iranian peoples. these descend from the sintashta people, who descend from the corded ware, who descend from the yamnaya.
the reconstruction for what the yamnaya called themselves is probably more like "*h₂er(y)ós"
this makes more sense when you consider that the mycenaean greeks were calling themselves Akhaiwoi 1500 BC themselves while the Armenians called themselves Hay
i know this shit. if you don't know i know, you are showing you are ignorant. so enlighten yourself
Why the fuck would anyone call Indo-Europeans "Aryans"? Why are some hereditarians this stupid and obnoxious? It's as if they want to be the outcasts of the Social Sciences forever lol. Good post Khan, I admire how much anthropological knowledge you have.
Because Indo-Europeans aka Corded ware culture is 3/4 Proto-Indo-European and 1/4 Early European Farmer. Aryans were the Sintashta culture which were corded ware culture people who migrated east ward... They were 3/4 PIE and 1/4 EEF as well...
Northwestern Europeans are around 1/2ish Corded ware culture and 1/2ish early european farmer. Both the Aryans, and EEF were of the west eurasian taxa below species. All Europeans and West Asians are members of the west eurasian taxa, that is something the author messed up on.
Am writing from lifelong interest, experience and study plus some academic time spent on animal behavior, as well as human. All living things on this planet have different physical, behavioral and in some species/populations, intellectual traits. Who does not see this? First the potential had to be there,for whatever reasons, then the environmental pressures selected for it. Put humans aside for a moment: consider the 400 or so breeds/types of canine. One hunts and kills, another guards the same species. One runs down antelope, one can barely climb stairs. One greets all members of a community while one guards against all non-residents, or retrieves that duck for your dinner. It is well documented and long observed that different human populations vary in so many ways, obviously genetic in their foundation, that capacities for inventiveness, curiosity, etc. are also genetic. The planet should be happy that there are gifted, talented, inventive people available when needed.
Can someone explain how the sibling GWAS helps? Like the chopstick example, how would comparing it to sibiling yield anything insightful? They population would still be east asian and still use chopsticks, so how does this comparison rule out an environmental cause for chopstick use?
The famously large crania of the Indo-Europeans make me quite skeptical that they are lower IQ than the farmers. And the higher PGS for education. And your own previous study which found that the Neolithic Farmer subgroups had about the same PGS as the Indo-European Bell Beaker folk.
Also, European Farmers are quite variant genetically. By the time the Indo-Europeans attacked, Northern European EEFs were nearly half WHG. Maybe the initial burst of farmers were intellectuals, and that’s who they sampled? I think Barcin was elevated at the mean in your study too. But the half-HG farmers who the Indo-Europeans encountered may have been less intelligent and more ripe for conquest.
Higher cranium size alone doesn't necessarily mean higher IQ. It usually does, but not always. Autistics have larger-than-average-sized heads, with average IQs two standard deviations below average. (Though I don't know if it's still that low due to overdiagnosis.)
But given that the Aryan invaders also have other signs of higher IQ, like being the first people on Earth to domesticate the horse and invent the chariot, I lean with you on this one.
Early European Farmers probably had an average IQ in the 90s. Sardinians are 75-80% neolithic anatolian farmer, Sardinia kept these people isolated. They are the closest to European's early european farmer ancestor.
As for Aryans. Aryans were the Sintashta culture, which is a break-off of the corded ware culture that migrated east wards. Europeans descend from the corded ware culture, who are 3/4 PIE and 1/4 Early European Farmer as are the Aryans.
Either way, Europeans followed in both of their ancestors foot steps. Revolutionized the world multiple times with major tech revolutions. Spread their cultural values, language and various other models (military, economic, civic...) everywhere. English won the language war.
For the article, I have to criticize the author. West Eurasian is a taxa below species, it's not just a regional marker. All Europeans and West Asians are West Eurasians...
Neolithic anatolian farmer, Iranian neolithic farmer, Caucasus hunter gatherer, and natufian hunter gatherer all descend from the Dzudzuana cave cave people. Western Hunter Gatherers and Ancient North Eurasians are two other West Eurasian ancient ancestries.
PIE people are a mixture of Eastern European hunter gatherers (like 35% WHG and 65% ANE) and a Caucasus hunter gatherer-like population.
Anyways, Aryan/Corded ware culture ancestry peaks in North-east Europe. Neolithic anatolian farmer ancestry peaks in Southern Europe (So you see, the CWC and early europeans farmers mixing at varying degrees was destiny...). NHG ancestry peaks in Arabia. CHG ancestry peaks in the Caucasus. Iranian neolithic farmer ancestry peaks in Iran.
If you superimpose a decent PCA graph of Europeans over Europe with bodies of water removed and landmasses smooshed together properly. You will see everyone settled in regions of Europe where they genetically belonged. You will see that Finns having some Siberian in them was no fluke as it gives them genetic distance to go along with geographic distance. West Asians naturally form genetic clusters around the European one, it's one smooth continuum of statistical gradients.
Thanks for an exciting and informative article on the expansion of West Eurasian cognitive ability over the previous 14 millennia.
What has always interested me is what caused the relatively fast expansion, other than the possibility of selection.
The study is great step forward. And I much expect that the many people who believe impossible things about human races will find five other impossible things to believe before breakfast.
One minor issue for me I expect is a bigger issue for Ali Akbari, whose name leads the list of 16 authors, whereas David Reich's name comes in dead last, following the pattern that a famous researcher's name gets tagged on at the end of a long list of coauthors even though he may know almost nothing about it, and yet David Reich has been getting effectively all the credit for this study (Steve Sailer had two Substack posts about this preprint recently).
It's common in research labs to swap around first authors on papers so that PhD students get credit they need for getting jobs. The only thing we know for sure here is that it came from Reich's lab, and since it's a famous lab for ancient genomes, it makes sense to treat it as a collective unit with David as their leader.
You could be right. Upon inspection of the PDF I see: "Correspondence to: Ali_Akbari@hms.harvard.edu, reich@genetics.med.harvard.edu." Akbari's email is given first and Reich's second. It is unusual for two emails to be given for correspondence, so the only way to make sense of it is that maybe Akbari could not answer all the questions but Reich can.
I emailed them my study and Ali answered.
everyone within science knows ali akbari has been working on this for years. this will get him the tenure-track job he wants.
that's all that matters
It was always highly dubious that evolution just had a pause button for humans for the last several thousand generations. The same thing happened to dogs, and they're even more diverse than we are. Sadly the propagators of this belief were so focused and persistent, and were pushing on a door that wasn't so much open as removed from its hinges altogether, that it'll be a generational project to undo their wave of bullshit.
"For example, it appears that the farmers from Anatolia (green) were markedly less prone to schizophrenia than the hunter-gatherers (orange) and the Indo-Europeans or “Aryans” (blue). "
object to you using the nazi tendency of substituting aryans for indo-europeans. aryans only refers to indo-iranians. stop being retarded, it's annoying.
That's why it was in quotation marks.
What are you even talking about? Aryans refer to the tall, blonde people who spread through Europe and down into Asia. Modern Iranians are a mixed population and look nothing like them, which is pretty clear from your profile pic. Europeans, on the other hand, still resemble them for obvious genetic and visual reasons. You’re clinging to basic propaganda to support your flimsy claims and racial moaning. It’s both funny and pathetic
the data to falsify your comment is right in the paper. but you are too stupid to actually read the paper.
Aryans were the Sintashta Culture. Who broke off from the corded ware culture that Europeans descend from. CWC and SC both were 3/4 PIE and 1/4 early european farmer...
PIE people were a mixture of eastern european hunter gatherer (35% western hunter gatherer and 65% ancient north eurasian) and Caucasus hunter gatherer-like people.
We use the ethnonym Aryan because Sintashta and corded ware culture are pretty much the same population, even if Sintashta were the ones who came up with that identity.
And North Europeans are the most Aryan-like autosomally. Imagine if Irish screwed off to West Africa and left 20% Irish and 80% West African descendants. Who would be more Irish-like in terms of what emerges out of their people? The 20/80 west African population who calls themselves Irish, or the Scottish who are extremely similar to the Irish.
Iranians have very little Aryan blood in them, and that is a good thing ,other wise they would not genetically belong in that region of West Asia. Iran is where the Zagros neolithic farmer ancestry peaks, and naturally Caucasus hunter gatherer ancestry peaks in the Caucasus. Those two ancestries were fated to be near each other geographically.
Pakistanis have 25% Aryan blood in them on average, but they are hybrid as ancient ancestral Indian is an east eurasian ancestry and part of the east eurasian taxa below species.
We all settled in the region of Eurasia/Africa where we genetically belonged. NW europeans literally belong in NW europe and nowhere else. This is very obvious from PCA graphs when you properly superimpose them over geographic maps with bodies of water removed and landmasses smooshed together.
It was fate that the Indo-Europeans mixed with the early europeans farmers to create most of Europe's genetic fabric. West Asians form genetic clusters near Europeans, so it was fate that their ancestors mixed the way they did region by region.
The current invasion of western europe is not the divine will it is human will, it is motivated by economics, ideology, and vengeful politics. Someone who is 1/2 NW european and 1/2 African or South Asian does not even plot near the west asian genetic clusters. Modern Europeans are the finished product of the melting pot. The gene flow events in the ice age, neolithic, bronze age, iron age and classical times were not flukes.
you're a retard. you should stop commenting on aporia since your IQ is too low and you don't know anything
Actually if the current identification of original Indo-Europeans with ancient DNA is correct then those people were tall but not really blonde and not blue eyed. It doesn't sound like you're any less obsessed with racial propaganda.
Look at the Scythekans , the ancient Greeks, the Persians, (heck, even Darius wrote on his tomb I am an aryan), and the Egyptians, they were all mostly blonde, red head and light eyes.. Down the line these aryans mixed their blood and their civilisations subsequently fell and decayed, but modern day Egyptians and Indians claiming civilisations that were never there’s is absurd. Everyone wants to appropriate Aryan culture, while making it seem like their own. Sad really. And imagine getting offended over a word. Not really grown up behaviour.
retard, when have their DNA.
can we have a raven's progressive matrices tests for commenters here? :)
"retard, when have their DNA."
The above sentence could only have been written by a retard.
lol. whatever.
the people who run this website know the measure of me you moron.
jaakkeli, how come you aren't commenting on my substack!
North Europeans, especially NE europeans and Northern Scandinavians resemble them the most. That is where that ancestry peaks.
Sintashta culture was the Aryans, and they were a splinter of the corded ware culture (Where we descend from) that migrated eastward.
Corded ware culture had a wide variety of phenotypes (as in facial appearances) where none was really dominant. Nordic phenotypes were dominant in Sintashta culture, so it's quite clear that the Nordic-looking people of the corded ware culture generally got together, tribed up and migrated east ward. Andronovo is another splinter of sintashta culture, and nordic appearances are most dominant in them.
It was not a fluke that the corded ware culture mixed with the early european farmers to create most of Europe's genetic fabric. Europeans form a genetic cluster, and West Asians form numerous genetic clusters around the European one. It is very similar to our geographic relationship with one another. It was also not a fluke that Finns ended up with some Siberian in them, as it gives them genetic distance to go along with their geographic distance. It's normal for Europeans on the fringes of Europe to have something other than NAF, WHG, ANE and CHG.
Europeans and West Asians are both members of the West Eurasian taxa below species. When the Reich Lab talks about West Eurasians, they are talking about a "sub-species".
West Eurasian ancient ancestries are Neolithic anatolian farmer, iranian neolithic farmer, natufian hunter gatherer, Caucasus hunter gatherer, Western Hunter Gatherer, and ancient north eurasian (not completely west eurasian).
Ashkenazi Jews are 20% Aryan and 13% ancestry that's Aryan-like, so they can be modelled as 33% Corded ware culture, which is on par with North Italians. Ashkenazi Jews have some extra iranian neolithic farmer and natufian hunter gatherer in them. They cluster near south Italians, Greeks and southwest asians. They are on the fringes of the European genetic cluster, so non-european components are to be expected.
Although they cluster near south italians, they are really more like North Italians, it's the extra INF and NHG that drags them near the south italians.
NW europeans are around 50%ish Corded ware culture and 50%ish Early European farmer. Makes sense, and some of our ideal facial appearances are a mix of Mediterranean and Nordic physical features.
Fixed
So you accept the insult that you are 'retarded'?
compared to me he is. no razib, no emil
to be clear for the ignorant. the word "aryans" is the endonym for indo-iranian peoples. these descend from the sintashta people, who descend from the corded ware, who descend from the yamnaya.
the reconstruction for what the yamnaya called themselves is probably more like "*h₂er(y)ós"
this makes more sense when you consider that the mycenaean greeks were calling themselves Akhaiwoi 1500 BC themselves while the Armenians called themselves Hay
i know this shit. if you don't know i know, you are showing you are ignorant. so enlighten yourself
Yeah, you're a fucking genius...you don't know that the first letter of a sentence should be upper case.
In reality, you are an obnoxious little fuck.
i'm obnoxious, fair. but you are retarded compared to me, that's an objective fact almost certainly.
aporia is for hard truths. most of you are retarded compared to me, suck on it :) or is realism only for some things?
Why the fuck would anyone call Indo-Europeans "Aryans"? Why are some hereditarians this stupid and obnoxious? It's as if they want to be the outcasts of the Social Sciences forever lol. Good post Khan, I admire how much anthropological knowledge you have.
Because Indo-Europeans aka Corded ware culture is 3/4 Proto-Indo-European and 1/4 Early European Farmer. Aryans were the Sintashta culture which were corded ware culture people who migrated east ward... They were 3/4 PIE and 1/4 EEF as well...
Northwestern Europeans are around 1/2ish Corded ware culture and 1/2ish early european farmer. Both the Aryans, and EEF were of the west eurasian taxa below species. All Europeans and West Asians are members of the west eurasian taxa, that is something the author messed up on.
https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=aryan
Why the fuck would anyone post the same comment twice? Notice I used a question mark after my question.
Lol.
Is there a measured correlation with adult lactase? Cochran's main theory was that it was about rustling cattle.
Imagine my shock
"Indo-Europeans had some compensating non-cognitive traits"
Looks?
Astounding illustration introducing this article. Who is the artist please?
Am writing from lifelong interest, experience and study plus some academic time spent on animal behavior, as well as human. All living things on this planet have different physical, behavioral and in some species/populations, intellectual traits. Who does not see this? First the potential had to be there,for whatever reasons, then the environmental pressures selected for it. Put humans aside for a moment: consider the 400 or so breeds/types of canine. One hunts and kills, another guards the same species. One runs down antelope, one can barely climb stairs. One greets all members of a community while one guards against all non-residents, or retrieves that duck for your dinner. It is well documented and long observed that different human populations vary in so many ways, obviously genetic in their foundation, that capacities for inventiveness, curiosity, etc. are also genetic. The planet should be happy that there are gifted, talented, inventive people available when needed.
Can someone explain how the sibling GWAS helps? Like the chopstick example, how would comparing it to sibiling yield anything insightful? They population would still be east asian and still use chopsticks, so how does this comparison rule out an environmental cause for chopstick use?
In that 3x4 table of graphs, am I right that it's showing western hunter gathers started out as "thicc"?
The famously large crania of the Indo-Europeans make me quite skeptical that they are lower IQ than the farmers. And the higher PGS for education. And your own previous study which found that the Neolithic Farmer subgroups had about the same PGS as the Indo-European Bell Beaker folk.
Also, European Farmers are quite variant genetically. By the time the Indo-Europeans attacked, Northern European EEFs were nearly half WHG. Maybe the initial burst of farmers were intellectuals, and that’s who they sampled? I think Barcin was elevated at the mean in your study too. But the half-HG farmers who the Indo-Europeans encountered may have been less intelligent and more ripe for conquest.
Higher cranium size alone doesn't necessarily mean higher IQ. It usually does, but not always. Autistics have larger-than-average-sized heads, with average IQs two standard deviations below average. (Though I don't know if it's still that low due to overdiagnosis.)
But given that the Aryan invaders also have other signs of higher IQ, like being the first people on Earth to domesticate the horse and invent the chariot, I lean with you on this one.
Early European Farmers probably had an average IQ in the 90s. Sardinians are 75-80% neolithic anatolian farmer, Sardinia kept these people isolated. They are the closest to European's early european farmer ancestor.
As for Aryans. Aryans were the Sintashta culture, which is a break-off of the corded ware culture that migrated east wards. Europeans descend from the corded ware culture, who are 3/4 PIE and 1/4 Early European Farmer as are the Aryans.
Either way, Europeans followed in both of their ancestors foot steps. Revolutionized the world multiple times with major tech revolutions. Spread their cultural values, language and various other models (military, economic, civic...) everywhere. English won the language war.
For the article, I have to criticize the author. West Eurasian is a taxa below species, it's not just a regional marker. All Europeans and West Asians are West Eurasians...
Neolithic anatolian farmer, Iranian neolithic farmer, Caucasus hunter gatherer, and natufian hunter gatherer all descend from the Dzudzuana cave cave people. Western Hunter Gatherers and Ancient North Eurasians are two other West Eurasian ancient ancestries.
PIE people are a mixture of Eastern European hunter gatherers (like 35% WHG and 65% ANE) and a Caucasus hunter gatherer-like population.
Anyways, Aryan/Corded ware culture ancestry peaks in North-east Europe. Neolithic anatolian farmer ancestry peaks in Southern Europe (So you see, the CWC and early europeans farmers mixing at varying degrees was destiny...). NHG ancestry peaks in Arabia. CHG ancestry peaks in the Caucasus. Iranian neolithic farmer ancestry peaks in Iran.
If you superimpose a decent PCA graph of Europeans over Europe with bodies of water removed and landmasses smooshed together properly. You will see everyone settled in regions of Europe where they genetically belonged. You will see that Finns having some Siberian in them was no fluke as it gives them genetic distance to go along with geographic distance. West Asians naturally form genetic clusters around the European one, it's one smooth continuum of statistical gradients.
Yes, correct, it is simply a corollary. But, so is PGS.